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SPEAKER 2
Hello, everybody. Great to be with you. On episode four, we are lucky to be joined by a senior leader at the World Health Organization, Dr. Maria van Krakow. And I'm glad she's here because there's a lot that we need to talk about. We actually did some media last week for broadcast TV.
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And the fact is you can't talk about much in five minutes. And so Maria is going to join us. And we're going to dive deeper into why the WHO matters to every single American across the country. It's an organization that does a lot for us, often behind the scenes,
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and often we don't really have enough time to talk about that. So that's why she's going to join us. Before she joins us, I just want to give you a sense of what we're trying to do here. This is episode four of a new health-focused podcast on all things healthcare and public health.

Meidas Health: Why Trump's WHO Exit Puts Us All at Risk

Dr. Vin Gupta sits down with Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove of the World Health Organization to expose the dangerous consequences of Trump’s war on global health.

In Episode 4 of Meidas Health, Dr. Vin Gupta welcomes one of the world’s top infectious disease experts, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, to deliver a critical message the MAGA movement doesn’t want Americans to hear: the World Health Organization (WHO) saves lives—including yours—every single day.

As the technical lead for the WHO’s COVID-19 response and head of its Emerging Diseases and Zoonoses Unit, Van Kerkhove brings an urgent, inside look at how the organization prevents global pandemics, coordinates life-saving data, and fights disinformation that quite literally kills. She explains that most of the WHO’s victories never make headlines—because the very nature of prevention is invisible until it's too late.

Together, she and Dr. Gupta unpack how deeply the WHO is woven into the fabric of American health and safety—from stopping the next Ebola or flu outbreak from crossing our borders, to helping guide the very pandemic responses that allowed millions to return to school and work.

Van Kerkhove doesn’t sugarcoat it. “We’re not perfect,” she says. “But without the WHO, the early detection of deadly outbreaks, the ability to coordinate a response, and the trust-building with communities all vanish. No country, not even the U.S., can do this alone.”

And yet, Trump and his enablers continue their assault on science and global cooperation, seeking political points while ignoring the fact that viruses don’t care about borders or party lines. They want to burn it all down—and pretend the consequences won’t find their way to your kitchen table.

If you’ve ever wondered why the WHO matters or why it’s even being questioned in the first place, this episode answers it with clarity, compassion, and moral urgency. It’s not just about the past—it’s about protecting the future.

👉 Watch the full episode now and listen to Meidas Health on Apple Podcasts and Spotify for more unfiltered conversations with the experts who actually know what they’re talking about.

Meidas+ is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

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Discussion about this video

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Karma Infinity's avatar

First the whisper: we’re out. Then the roar: millions at risk.

Trump’s WHO exit wasn’t just a policy shift—it was a seismic crack in the code of global safety. In the middle of a pandemic, the U.S. pulled the fire alarm… and walked out of the building.

But here’s the wild part: the world is still watching, still wondering—what happens when the leader stops leading? When the lifeline gets cut, do we build new ones, or let the silence win?

This is about more than politics. It’s the adrenaline of interconnected fate. The thrilling truth that we need each other to survive.

Do we rise, or retreat?

Your turn now. ♾️

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LindyLoo's avatar

Thank you for your excellent comments! We are at a turning point in the history of the world. As a nurse, I am usually a positive person but.....with the drastic cuts to healthcare and lifesaving services by this administration, I fear millions of innocent people are going to die from the selfish corrupt decisions by a few of heartless people.

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

Flash: Rep. Don Bacon, a prominent Republican and former Air Force general, has become the first GOP lawmaker to publicly call for the removal of Pete Hegseth.

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Donna Israel's avatar

How do we arm ourselves?

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Daniel Solomon's avatar

So...will any Congressional Republicans stand with us on threats to public health?

I still think national security is the tie that binds. Hegseth is a dream opponent....

Meidas should be concentrating on the many Congressional Republicans who are unhappy with Trump. We need to get them to come to their senses and stand up with us. https://jerryweiss.substack.com/

See Keith Olbermannn today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjUmNp4kg60&t=240s

The most important thing said by a Congressional Republican. "I am afraid."

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Donna Israel's avatar

The "humble" truth!

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Donna Israel's avatar

Absolutely! We do need each other. That is community!!

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Joan Fregapane's avatar

Trump is incapable of strategic thinking or seeing leadership as anything but a means to enrich or aggrandize himself.

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LindyLoo's avatar

Remember he's the best fit president to ever live..... and other lies.

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Cathy Key's avatar

As a retired nurse it's amazing how quickly people prayed for a vaccine for covid and when it happened, one stupid uneducated opinion spread like wildfire and suddenly people were saying the vaccine would kill you! I remember those refrigerated trucks turned into temporary morgues. Ignorance is rampant.

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LindyLoo's avatar

I completely agree, Cathy. How can anyone forget the trucks??? As a nurse, I'm sure you are as concerned as me. We are going to have another major medical emergency with this regime in power.

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Kathy Tankersley's avatar

Hi, same with the threat from measles, let alone polio, TB and other communicable diseases. I am also a retired nurse and I am so frustrated by the pseudo science propaganda that is now spreading faster by the maladministration now in power. They are promoting policies based on what “feels” like the truth but not backed by scientific evidence. We are going backwards faster than I ever imagined. We are in the era governed by cruel know-nothings and soulless imbeciles.

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Donna Israel's avatar

America needs to be proactive and informed. We must be vigilant as though our lives depend on it, because IT DOES!

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MARTIN SAUER's avatar

What's that old saying? "A lie has traveled around the world before truth has gotten its pants on."

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Thomas Thompson's avatar

"60 Minutes" had an informative segment last night about the bird flu epidemic. It is being passed to humans from cows, and at least one has died. What is alarming about a disease that hardly kills any people is that it will mutate. These mutations can make it more easily communicable and much more deadly! They worried about Trump's insane policies vis a vis health care and the next deadly pandemic!

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Jean Conley's avatar

I saw that, too. Very alarming. Maybe it will take Dump and his republiCRAP fans to get (not just one or two) to get it--or their family members--and die as a result. then again--like COVID--I doubt THAT will even wake them up.

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Candace Lucas's avatar

I would be okay with this virus if we could figure out a way that it limits itself to only killing MAGAts

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Donna Israel's avatar

Thank you for putting this "out there!

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Marilyn Waxberg's avatar

WHO matters globally and for the US. World Health Organization could greatly impact the USA’s ability to track and respond to global disease threats. If you thought his response to COVID was bad, just wait. Actually, don’t wait. We must get back to supporting WHO.

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Donna Israel's avatar

Yes! What do we as a nation do?

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Amy Walter's avatar

My husband and I have been sick for two weeks, we haven’t been sick in five years. It’s not a coincidence that trump was President during both of these sicknesses. First covid, which trump ignored and told us wasn’t happening. We were sick before vaccines were available. Once vaccines were available we kept up with all our vaccinations and stayed healthy even though trump told us they weren’t necessary and bad. We believe in science. Now we’re no longer getting any important health updates at all and here we are sick again. Thank you MTN, Dr. Gupta and World Health Organization for keeping us informed. These podcasts are so vital & important

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Steve Goodwin's avatar

Our paranoid leader, pre— loaded with grievance, believes science and alliance are affronts to his limited native intelligence. Honor and integrity are for suckers. Curiosity is weakness. Truth is plastic.

His myopic decisions are destroying the country. The abandonment of the WHO and USAID leaves us defenseless against political and biological encroachment.

This is malfeasance. No one would hire this guy. Why should we?

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james f  botta's avatar

BUT???? why did he pull out of WHO?? Made him look bad during Covid outbreak??? They didn't praise him for getting Fauci to operate the fast reaction to Covid??? Didn't kiss his ass?? THAT IS WHAT ALL THIS IS ABOUT. I did not see anything in 2025 about pulling out of WHO?

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Donna Israel's avatar

He didn't want us to "panic." The majority of America did not learn of the horrible truth until the Spring when he KNEW by at least January! It was about his relection! He actually admited this. I wish I could find where I read it. He is responsible for an incredible amount of human suffering and death! He will never be held accountable which is criminal. Amercians have no idea now detrimental this meance to society has been! Thank you again!

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Kathy H's avatar

Because he's insane. He thinks the sheer force of his will can change reality, the weather, health, people...he thinks he's superhuman & nothing is anything other than what he alone says it is. Anything that doesn't align with that is the enemy & has to be destroyed. Especially science & facts, but ultimately everything & everyone, because despite so many going along with it, he, of course, is not superhuman. He's not even a good regular person. I wish the people that created this monster had to face the consequences without so many innocent people suffering. He does not care about anyone's health or well-being, only the delusion of his own power.

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Ming's avatar

With the meatheads that Trumpo has appointed, I can't imagine how many millions and millions of US Americans would die if something similar to COVID happens again!

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LindyLoo's avatar

It's going to happen

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Dennis McAtee's avatar

I would like to submit Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove name into the box to replace RFK, Jr. when he is ousted for being a Medical Hack, any 2nd's?

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Donna Whyte's avatar

Yes I Agree !

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Kathy H's avatar

Omg, someone so committed to evidence based decisions, communication, & serving the public, are you kidding? The only good thing to come out of all this has been the opportunity to find out what people do & to find how committed many are to doing it well. We have had enough Fox hosts & reality show assholes until the end of time.

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Sal Teodoro's avatar

Trump was the cause of over a million Americans dying and his regime, his brother Putin’s regime, and China’s regime, will not share information as we have measles, bird flu, and a South African going around.

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Donna Israel's avatar

A good reason to be informed. People need to be proactive with ALL health issues. However, they need to know where to go for reliable information. That has been sorely lacking in the U.S. on many levels. Again, thank you!

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Dennis McAtee's avatar

I find this extremely important information and alot more safe when I hear the professionality of your guest, Maria, today. I, now have a clearer picture of why Trump and RFK, Jr. want out of WHO. No way could they understand or grasp the important role The WHO plays in keeping Americans safe and healthy, as well as the World. Forest Gump says it best-"Stupid is as stupid does".

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Barbara Fairfax's avatar

And it will happen again and if we r depending on RFK, good luck!!!

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drbilldean@gmail.com's avatar

For the health of your finances Somber Thoughts About the US Economy

While many contributors in MSM(mainstream media) and Substack authors may trivialize this comment there is a word to wise Don’t shuss away comments about the global economy You do so at your own financial peril To painfully watch the daily Orange Cheeto’s destruction of the federal government distracts us from a much graver issue at hand The US economy and its relevance in the world as its reserve currency is coming to an end with an ensuing debt crisis Failure to heed the flashing warning lights will lead to devastating consequences to investor’s portfolios globally

To see the reasoning behind such ominous warning lights see https://bit.ly/3Gk6Uhq As the boy scout motto says ”Be Prepared” Also see for video bit.ly/4cJACIT

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Jenny Mann's avatar

You said truth.

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drbilldean@gmail.com's avatar

thanks spread the word to help your friends neighbors and community

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Donna Israel's avatar

We all need to be proactive. So grateful for this work!

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Dennis McAtee's avatar

This episode should be offered to all high schools through America as part of the Health Carriculum. Maybe the entire series, although this is the first I have seen.

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Linda Ihlenfeld's avatar

Thank you for this important information!

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LindyLoo's avatar

Thank you, doctors! This was an excellent podcast! I think WHO has always done an amazing job with an impossible mission. As a nurse, it scares me that the general public is so naive to think that the decisions by this administration to leave healthcare organizations is not going to have a detrimental effect on this country and the whole world.

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David Glaser's avatar

Hey Conservatives! How about trying to conserve something? You know…..good health, clean water and air? How about safe food? Money won’t help you when you’re dead.

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Jean Conley's avatar

The religious far right only want to save fertilized eggs....not protect our health.

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julie airoldi's avatar

Very well described! Thank you!

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Vicki Feeback's avatar

Dr. Kerhove, we are all saying those words that you want to say but hold back. Thank you both for this extremely important response to the U. S. ignorantly pulling out of WHO.

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Vicki Feeback's avatar

Sorry for the misspelling, Dr. Kerkhove.

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Jenny Mann's avatar

dear, dear KarmaWriter - again. you nailed it. Gratitude.

Measles on the move, again. Avian flu in chicken farming. With the' hole', cruelty is the point. Americans have had it sooooooo easy. So. Kill the babies. Kill the children with autism 'cos they never will amount to much - ever hear of Dr. Temple Grandin? Read about her life to date and then compare it to RFK jr and any of the louts residing on their bumps in our OUR government. Hell, kill us! These people never have read any science website, of which there are many. They keep people informed of changes minute and large and in-between regarding health, mountains, tetonic plate movement 'cos the layers of this planet which are always moving, the environment, forests, birds and mammals and reptiles, fungi, soil, water which is the most precious resource - so whenever I see photos of waterways filled with floating animal bodies and plastics and discarded anything, I feel sad - for the people who have no trash pickup and the marine animals who must swim in the trashy waterways we are creating.

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Dennis McAtee's avatar

I find this extremely important information and alot more safe when I hear the professionality of your guest, Maria, today. I, now have a clearer picture of why Trump wants out of WHO. No way could he understand or grasp the important role WHO plays in keeping Americans safe and healthy, as well as the World. Forest Gump says it best-"Stupid is as stupid does".

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Donna Israel's avatar

Thank you so much for your valuable information and your humility! I hope that many more Americans get the benfit that you have offered! Thank you again! Donna Israel - Philadelhia, PA

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jon norstog's avatar

I don't really listen to podcasts or watch YouTube videos. I am not a luddite, BUT my hearing is not all that great and I can take in information at least 4X faster by reading, compared to watching/listening. It would help me a LOT if you published print transcript of those posts. Perhaps developing these would be a decent and relatively benign use of AI?

I read every word of your plain text postings. They are great. I would really like to read the van Kerkhove-Gupta discussion, for instance.

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Donna Israel's avatar

Reading this wownderful work would be a temeidous benefit to so many!

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Rob Nelson's avatar

Hi caliber guests! Excellent strategy. Greatly appreciated. WHO talent? Fabulous. Thank you,

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Margaret Carlson's avatar

Tell the Trump administration that you will not bend. Be another Harvard. We need what you do to be safe.

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LeeAnnCastillo's avatar

Since trump doesn't want to hear about the next one, how can we hear about the next one?

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Laura Martin's avatar

I love what the WHO does. The world needs a comprehensive and cooperative oversight of all things infectious. I will do whatever I can to try to influence this malevolent dictatorship in the US. But, what I am focusing on is that the Trump regime KNOWS the value of The WHO. So why would they withdraw? My own opinion - It is to make it impossible or very difficult for Nations across the world to protect their citizens. Including here in the USA. And why would Trump, the regime, Peter Thiel, and all the underlying philosophically-psychotics want this to happen? They want fewer people on the planet. They don't care who dies. The sooner the weak die, the better. For them, this is survival of the fittest and about power. The power to make people come to you and grovel for help. And the power to kill other people without lifting a finger. I am so sorry for so many people to have been so deluded for so long.

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Robert's avatar

And Yes thank you for your presentation. I found it very good. I do meet with gop seniors at their gop meetings 2x a month this subject comes up and Dr.Fauci is their culprit with him leaking and some say created the virus? Not a question. Is beyond me trying to get facts out. I do believe something more sinister is happening now. So all I can do is get out of my comfort zone and get factual data. Getting some gop to look at the facts is another story. I’ll let them know that the market is down, some want to ague we have to go through pain? Thank you again.

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Robert's avatar

Sadly our country the U.S. seen dollar signs and used to divide everyday people. GOP used the wedge,used the politics. Such a great conversation and good to hear without any agenda other the WHO perspective and now I know more. I never blamed anyone but the gop for all the dis information that was put out without pushback from Trump. Instead we heard inject bleach, demeaning Dr. Fauchi and villainizing his work. What do I know I’m a retired construction worker. Again TY to Both Dr.s

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Susan Duval's avatar

Fantastic interview! So informative! THANK YOU!!!

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Linda Morway's avatar

I am grateful to you for keeping us in the know.

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Yvonne Dennis's avatar

Why is that crazy rump doing this, makes no sense and there are so many aroud him that are with him. I hope our good leaders will help find answers and solutions for all this near terror.

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Joanne C Collin's avatar

Sure it does. Unfortunately Trump does not . It is sad to us Americans. 🥲🥲

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Nenapoma's avatar

Where can I find the other episodes?

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Amy Birnbaum's avatar

I’m surprised you didn’t ask Dr Van Kerkhove about their response to the air transmission scientists who tried to include air transmission as an important means of infection

https://eos.org/articles/aerosol-scientists-try-to-clear-the-air-about-covid-19-transmission

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/05/04/who-coronavirus-airborne/

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Mary Tirpok's avatar

Absolutely love this podcast! Thank you for all you both do for public health 💙

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Mark Lambert's avatar

Trump loves three avenues when it comes to responsibility.. The first is to play dumb that he knew about the situation, the second is to know it all about the situation and the third is to play the victim for not accepting the knowledge of those whose jobs it is to know better. This is a deadly formula when it comes to disease prevention and the spread of communicable viruses as we all witnessed in his first administration. We must all ask ourselves why , WHY is he dead set on making this administrations lack of preparedness and safety policies for the protection of American lives worse?

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Mark Lambert's avatar

The Trump administration is currently tearing down every last safety measure of public health, early warning, scientific protocol and prevention that keep the most dangerous and preventable disease and Virus outbreaks from crossing U.S. borders. Not only from the WHO.. but the CDC and the FDA. Trump dropped the ball on COVID early action and in his second term is making certain to endanger and kill as many Americans as he and his unqualified quack administration can get away with. There cannot be enough emphasis put on the dangers that these unhinged actions are causing to our nation, children and each other and we must tear down the phone lines of our state representatives to demand they put the pressure on this increasingly dangerous administration to put all protections of the health and welfare of our citizens back in place. Their lies and incompetence have already caused a rampant, deadly outbreak of measles in our nation.. Let’s not have the soon to be next outbreak be like the one that decimated our nation and lives during Trumps first failed attempt of protecting it.

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T Allen's avatar

People are asking about reliable sources of info after the gutting of the CDC. I've listened to Katelyn Jetelina for over a year at "Your Local Epidemiologist" on Substack. She and her co-writers do a great job of tracking CDC info from the inside and sharing it is easy to understand language, charts and graphs. Good news yesterday, flu is about gone and bird flu is decreasing, for now.

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Damien Shutt's avatar

Very informative and valuable to know.

Thank you, Maria for being so articulate and so committed.

Best wishes to WHO for our common future.

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Shirley Eads's avatar

Very interesting and informative discussion. Thank you.

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Kathleen Polly's avatar

This was a very interesting podcast! I have known some of what WHO does. Exiting though on the U.S. part is a HUGE MISTAKE! We need this information to be made public and the science deniers be damned! Cutting this country off from pertinent information is another death sentence! We lost a million people in the first round of bloated orange cheese ball! I find it incredibly concerning that the second time could be more lethal!

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Ann's avatar

This was such an important podcast with an excellent guest, what a hero she is! Thank you both so much!

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FeralAF's avatar

Also appreciated the update on the possible covid China lab leak and China still not being forthcoming. I have a feeling we'll be revisiting some of that conspiracy/ political nonsense if the bird flue takes hold... already seeing some

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FeralAF's avatar

Just knowing the WHO makes recommendations and not mandates is sooo important especially for the public as I remember perusing their sites during covid and I remember wondering why they didn't seem as alarmed as other health organizations and I think it was because I wasn't seeing strict mandates.

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Ginger's avatar

Every day he proves EO's became his door to destroy this democracy

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Bea Pawlin's avatar

Very important message. Thank you!

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Somewhere, Somehow's avatar

I wonder if he is looking to cull the population so leaving the world stage will “hide” his goal for a short while.

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Steve Adelman's avatar

I am not sure what the point of all this doom and gloom stuff is. Everyone knows Trump is an asshole, so why keep pounding away at it? Clickbait to get more paying subscribers? Should we all get weapons and storm the White House? How about a response, instead of ignoring it and peddling the same stuff, day after day?

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and often we don't really have enough time to talk about that. So that's why she's going to join us. Before she joins us, I just want to give you a sense of what we're trying to do here. This is episode four of a new health-focused podcast on all things healthcare and public health.